Soteriology101: A Respectful response to Mr. Eric Kemp on God’s Eternal Infinite Perfect Foreknowledge

Hello Mr. Kemp. I am at your mercy knowing you are the powers that be. But you would have no power over me on this forum unless given to you by my Father in Heaven.

I would like to cordially and respectfully respond to your response and assertions here. Since I am currently watching my 71 year old mother who just recently fell and broke two ribs I have time on my hands.

As you know earthy analogies are faulty and eventually break down when used to define and characterize the Eternal God who all was and always will be the self-existing Eternal God. Far above are comprehension. As his thoughts are not are thoughts and his ways are not are ways.

Romans 11:33 – O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

I always like to go Back to the Holy Word of the Living God to get a picture of this Eternal Holy Loving Infinite in knowledge and power, God. Whose ways are higher than our ways and His ways are past finding out Other than what he has revealed to us in Scripture. Then we must pray and show due diligence in study to show ourselves approved in rightly dividing the Word of God the very Word of His grace for our lives.

Eric said and I quote as I think he was paraphrasing the person he was responding to: “The question I would ask in response is this: What does “before” mean when we’re talking about God? Obviously, I don’t take you as saying that God is bound by time and therefore can only know things as they happen.”

I agree with the statement that “God is not bound by time” as I think God in his Sovereign Providence is actively involved within His creation and not just sitting on the His Holy Metaphorical Throne (I don’t know maybe Jesus is, but God is spirit) and doing nothing.

I do not agree with the quote “God is bound by time and therefore can only know things as they happen”

I also do not think that Mr. Kemp believes this. As he would stand as an Orthodox Christian on this issue believing in the Infinite, Unlimited Exhaustive Knowledge of God. I would say there is nothing “bare” about it. There is never a time in the past, present, or future that God did or has not known something. God knows past, present and future all at the same time. God does not have to look into the future or down the corridor of time to retrieve or obtain some information. That would mean there was a time when God did not know something and his Knowledge would not be Eternal, Infinite and Perfect.

Colossians 2:that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God’s mystery, which is Christ,
Colossians 2:3 – in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

All treasure of wisdom and knowledge can found in Christ. I could amplify and expand on the Verses of God’s Eternal Infinite Perfect Knowledge but do not feel the need to do so because I believe Mr. Kemp is on the same page. If not my brother in Christ can clarify.

There Mr. Kemp says and I quote: “Let’s say time is like a parade. You and I are bound to watching the parade from the sideline, seeing everything as it happens.”

This is true. We are God’s finite limited creatures and do not possess Eternal Infinite Perfect Knowledge as the “Great I Am” does. So in our creaturely limited knowledge of knowing, would would only see the parade and decisions and actions of the individuals within the parade as each reveal their decisions and actions. Then we are still limited to seeing only what we can see in our creaturely finite limited knowledge. This poses God no problem but in a completely different way other than Mr. Kemp states.

Mr. Kemp says and I quote: “However, God is not bound as we are but instead can be thought of as being up in a helicopter, seeing the entire parade all at once. This is called the “eternal now” view of God.”

This statement in the utmost to Mr. Kemp I emphatically deny. This is limiting God and His Eternal Infinite Perfect Foreknowledge.

Soteriology101: Dr. Leighton Flowers says the word “BEFORE” found in Holy Scripture always refers to Christ and not to individual People. I respectfully refute that.

But I want to address a statement that Dr. Flowers made in his article.

Dr. Flowers said and I quote: “NOTICE: All statements where “before the foundation of the world” is used, is given with reference to Christ. (John 17:24; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20)”

This just is not true and even one that I notice I believe and others I respectfully think he interprets incorrectly. That being Ephesians 1:4 as for one.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I already asked in one place (just when did CORPORATE ELECTION BEGIN TO BE DEVELOPED AND TAUGHT)

Dr. Sean Cole has a very interesting podcast on his website tracking it back to Karl Barth who seemed to pick up on it from another person (whose name I could not spell if I tried) in the 1920’s and the 1930’s. Can it be traced and found in the early Church Fathers. That is (CORPORATE ELECTION)

This is interesting since much has been made about Augustine being the inventor of what we now call today the Reformed Calvinistic Faith.

Then how about William Wredes Secret Motif of 1901. Wow! Now that is really new, recent and suspect. It is rejected by the majority of Orthodox Christianity that being Non-Calvinist and Calvinist Christians.

But was William Wredes Secret Motif of 1901 ever taught by the (EARLY CHURCH FATHERS) If so I would like to know where since what Augustine and what the Reformed Faith teaches today is rejected partially because it is said the ECF did not teach it. Although I have found many verses that allude to it in the ECF. Read John Gill Cause of God and Truth part 4.

So we reject some things because it is said it is not found in the ECF then we accept other things like “The Secret Motif that was invented in 1901 that I would say was not taught by the ECF. I wonder after listening to Church Historian and Scholar Dr. Sean Cole if the ECF even taught (CORPORATE ELECTION) as I think it is imposed but respectfully (because it is truly what one believes) on Ephesians 1:1-14.

But Ephesians 1:4 clearly says that God chose, elected, picked out, “US” (the us made up of individuals) “in Christ’ (not to be in Christ) that we should be without blame and holy before Him.

There is a direct connection between the US, and individual saved Christians in Verse 1 of Ephesians and the word “before”. Not to Jesus. Paul says it it to the “individual saints who are in Ephesus and the faithful (believing ones in the Original Greek) Christ Jesus.

Then the Apostle Paul includes himself as and individual with the Saints at Ephesus and Faithful in Christ Jesus when he did not include himself in verse one.

He does so in verse three adding himself as an individual to the US. By say God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

The following verses after Ephesians 1:4, in verse 5 says, “having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,”

We are Elected, Chosen, Picked out, By God before time began, from all eternity then predestined to be saved/adoption as sons in Christ Jesus to Himself in Time and History.

So Yeah, respectfully I do think the word “before” is very much related to the US, the individuals, chosen in Christ before time began to be holy and blameless before God. I do not think it refers to a collective election or to the blessings of being Holy and Blameless. The Greek just will not allow for it.

You say well Kevin You do not know Greek. I know one who does. I have his complete Biblical Greek Exegesis on this on as to how it is not speaking of Corporate Election or referring to Blessings of Holy and blameless in Christ being held in Christ stagnant until the right time in the future when one is saved. Very odd and ambiguous understanding here. But I do respect the theological theories and have tried to understand them.

2 Timothy 1:9 – the One having saved us and having called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, having been given us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,

2 Timothy 1:9 – who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Here is one Dr. Flowers maybe did not see. If he had I am sure he would have a different perspective than I do and I respect that.

The word “before” is not in this verse but without any uncertain terms this verse clearly and emphatically tells us that “God saved the audience being spoken to (as he does today) called them with a “Holy Calling” (as he does today, “not according to their works” (which is still true today saved by grace alone through faith alone ultimately because of Christ alone)

but all of this is “according to God’s own purpose (remember the eternal purpose in Christ Jesus and Jesus was prophesied to be the Savior before the Foundation of the World, before time began, 1 Peter 1:20)

so “according to God’s own purpose and grace which he gave the audience being spoken to in Christ Jesus before (TIMES ETERNAL, FROM ALL ETERNITY, BEFORE TIME BEGAN)

There are no two ways of Salvation, The same application is made to us. We can say no one existed but God was giving someone “grace in Christ before time eternal, before time began”

God is the Eternal God who calls those THINGS THAT BE NOT (THAT DO NOT EXIST) as though they were.

Blessings in Christ to all of you!!!

Part 2 Eric Kemp and Flowers feeble attempt to respond to Sean Cole, Chris Date, Tyler Vela

I listed with great interest as I found this to be the most destructive, devasting and damaging engagement or discussion of Flowers Philosophy. Then I listened to Eric Kemp who I debated on John 6 who tried to convince me that there were at least 3 or 4 verbs in John 6: 37-77 that practically meant the same thing and were interchangeable. First time I had ever heard that attempt to get around the plain meaning of what Jesus’ was conveying in the immediate and surrounding text. But it was even more interesting to listen to Flowers and Kemp struggle to overcome the Godly Wisdom of these three men who I think clearly done damage to Flowers and Kemp’s position. 

Southern Traditional Baptist Theodicy
The same point is true of Southern Traditional Baptist Belief System. If you Flowers and Kemp believe that God has Infinite Foreknowledge. Unless your Open Theist Freind Brian Wagner has influenced you otherwise, Then you know there has been and never was a time that God has not known something from all eternity. So God always knew he would create the Universe and Humanity. Then there came a time when he DETERMINED to do so. Because God’s knowledge is infinite he knows past, present and future all at the same time. There has never been a time God has not known something from all eternity. His knowledge is limitless and Exhaustive. He does not have to look into the future to obtain or retrieve some information he did not know because that would mean there was a time he did not know something. So I am assuming that 

Flowers and Kemp are at least still Christian Orthodox when it comes to God’s Infinite Knowledge in knowing an individual’s free moral actions even before he created them from all eternity. So when God DETERMINED to create from ALL ETERNITY according to the Southern Traditional Baptist Faith and System of Belief. Flowers and Kemp know that GOD KNEW INFINITELY ALL THINGS THAT WOULD BE. EVERY AUTONOMOUS LIBITERIAN FREE WILL ACTION OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL THAT WOULD EVER EXIST. INCLUDING THE MURDERS, THE RAPES, THE INCEST OF LITTLE CHILDREN, murdering of unborn babies by the billions, homosexuality now legal with same-sex marriages, THE KIDNAPPINGS, THE WARS THAT HAVE KILLED BILLIONS. THE TORTURE OF PHYSICAL, MENTAL, EMOTIONAL AND SEXUAL ABUSE AND WICKEDNESS BEYOND IMAGINATION. BUT GOD CHOSE TO CREATE THE WORLD HE KNEW WOULD BE ANYWAY. Flowers even admits that God has this mythical fictional Libiterian Free Will and could have chosen not to create the world that he did. But God did DETERMINE To create this World Flowers according to His Infinite Foreknowledge. FRee moral actions cannot be different to God. If he knows infinitely from eternity what they will be. He is not like us waiting to see what others will do he already knew from eternity before anyone existed every free moral action they would make. But Flowers and Kemp?!?! Your Holy and Loving God did! This is the world he knew would be when he DETERMINED to create and knew every evil wicked action that would bring much pain, sorrow, and suffering. God created this world of wickedness and evil according to your system of Belief Flowers and Kemp. Is this a Thrice Holy God and a God who is All-Loving?!?! Then Your God who is omnipotent, Almighty, all-powerful, infinite in understanding could stop this extreme evil wickedness that I described partially above. Your God just sits on His figurative throne and watches as all the evil happens and does nothing. Your system of Belief Leighton Flowers and Eric Kemp has GREAT DIFFICULTY WITH THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND SIN. IT MAKES GOD THE AUTHOR OF EVIL AND GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

ReplyForward

Eric Kemp and Flowers feeble attempt to respond to Sean Cole, Chris Date, Tyler Vela

I listed with great interest as I found this to be the most destructive, devastating and damaging engagement or discussion of Flowers Philosophy. Then I listened to Eric Kemp who I debated on John 6 who tried to convince me that there were at least 3 or 4 verbs in John 6: 37-77 that practically meant the same thing and were interchangeable. First time I had ever heard that attempt to get around the plain meaning of what Jesus’ was conveying in the immediate and surrounding text. But it was even more interesting to listen to Flowers and Kemp struggle to overcome the Godly Wisdom of these three men who I think clearly done damage to Flowers and Kemp’s position. 
Israel was a sin, David did so and was grieved and confessed his sin to God and said he had done foolishly. Now I know you two say God does intervene at times in time and history to accomplish his will and purpose. But this goes against the very the things you object against what the Calvinist believes and these three men bring up in the podcast. That God moved David’s heart to Sin because he was angry at Israel. You cannot have it both ways, Flowers and Kemp. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PARALLEL PASSAGE IN 1 chronicle 21:1 IT SAYS “SATAN MOVED OR Incited DAVID TO NUMBER THE NATION OF ISRAEL. IT WAS GOD WHO USED THE AGENCY OF SATAN TO CAUSE DAVID TO COMMIT THIS SIN. BECAUSE GOD WAS ANGRY AT ISRAEL. EVEN IN 1 chronicle COMPARED WITH 2 SAMUEL 24 WHERE IT SAYS IT WAS GOD THAT MOVED AND AND INCITED DAVID’S HEART WE READ IN I CHRONICLES DAVID WAS ALSO GRIEVED BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT HE HAD SINNED AGAINST GOD AND HAD DONE FOOLISHLY AND CONFESSED HIS SIN. So no, Chris Date is not Flattening things out by saying, God not only works out only just our Salvation but ALL THINGS (Universal, Absolute IN A Complete sense, All-Compassing) according to the Council of His Will.) He does not have to enter time to do these things, Flowers. God transcends time. Yes, he is omnipresent. But he is not actively working sin in the hearts DIRECTLY WORKING SIN or making people think a thought or make choices with their creaturely freedom directly always. There may be some instances where he moves the hearts of other nations to hate Israel and to go to war with them when they did not want to. But even then I would say he used a second cause or agent to make this happen. just AS HE USED A LYING DEMON OR SPIRIT AT ONE TIME IN SCRIPTURE God uses a lying spirit, a second cause, a second agent to commit the sin of lying. But God is not the author of Sin or anyway guilty by association. 1 Kings 22:19-23 – Then Micaiah said, ‘Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. And the LORD said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ The LORD said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the LORD said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’ Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.”   God uses a lying spirit, a second cause, a second agent to commit the sin of lying. But God is not the author of Sin or anyway guilty by association.

Soteriology101: In The Spirit of Love I Listened To What I Believe To Be The Most Devastating and Damaging Blow to the Views of Leighton Flowers To Date: By Sean Cole, Chris Date, Tyler Vela

I listened to this podcast with much intersest as these three gentlemen hit areas of contention and questions that I have had with Flowers philosophy for sometime. They also went beyond that and quite deep into what Flowers is saying and I think exposed much of his misinformation and contradictions. It will be interesting to see if Flowers pushes back on this and what he has to say.

I also hope there is a future debate with Flowers and two people of his choosing and Pastor Sean Cole, Chris Date. Tyler Vela.

Click the link below and listen to your questions answered that you have been asking for sometime or things that you have known to be true about the teachings of Leighton Flowers really expounded and clarified by these three gifted men of God.

https://www.seancole.net/media/439635-1763083-1913329/problems-with-provisionism-a-friendly-dialogue-with-tyler-vela-and-chris-date

Leighton Flowers Continues to Expose His Ignorance on the Doctrine of God’s Divine Election Part 2

We continue with the ignorance, misunderstandings and misrepresentations of Dr. Leighton Flowers concerning the Doctrine of Divine Election.

The next statement he makes in his article on “Three Things You Should Know About Election” is astounding and shocking and is not at all orthodox,

Flowers says and I quote:  “God could have just forgiven Abraham of his sin debt because his faith merited it.”

Flowers actually says “that Abraham could have merited his forgiveness. I declare to you that God can show no one forgiving grace or mercy unless their sins have first been punished in Jesus Christ.  It is judicial.  It is through Christ punishing the sinners sin that God can legally show forgiving grace and saving mercy to the believing sinner.  No one’s faith alone apart from what Christ accomplished on the crossed can merit Salvation.  It seems to me that Flowers goes back and forth from Pelagianism and Semi-Pelagianism.  SO GOD COULD NOT JUST HAVE FORGIVEN ABRAHAM OF HIS SIN DEBT BECAUSE HIS FAITH MERITED IT.

Dr. Flowers comes close to redeeming his above statement in his next comment but does not tie them together rightfully but leaves them confusing and ambiguous.

He states and I quote:  “Even though Abraham believed in God he still had a debt that he could not pay. God graciously chose to pay that debt through the sacrifice of His Son, without which no one would be saved.”

I agree with what Flowers says above and emphatically say that is the reason God of forgiveness was able to show mercy to believing Abraham. As Flowers rightfully says God graciously chose to pay that debt through the sacrifice of His Son, without which no one would be saved.  I agree.

Flowers then quotes Sam Storms again:

  1. Divine election is not merely corporate, but also of individuals.

Whereas it is true that Christ is himself the Elect One, and whereas it is true that the Church is the chosen or elect people of God, individuals are themselves chosen by God to believe in Christ in order that they might become members of the church. In other words, God didn’t simply choose the church. He chose the specific individuals who would comprise the church.

St0rms is right on in his God-given wisdom of Divine Election.  A perfect statement of Divine Election.

Flowers then makes a quote that gives me some information of the Traditionalist understanding that I did not know and I want to represent them correctly.

Flowers says and I quote:  “The Traditional view does not deny that election includes individuals. It is a gross misrepresentation of our view to suggest otherwise. Traditionalists teach God has chosen believing individuals for salvation whereas Calvinists teach God has chosen to irresistibly turn certain individuals into believers by supernatural means so as to save them”

I would say that that is a pretty Good distinction (although it does not tell the whole story of the Reformed view) of how both the Traditional Camp and the Reformed Camp both believe God saves individuals.  I would say this though, salvation is supernatural no matter what, So I would hope that the Traditionalist would believe that Salvation belongs tot the Lord and one being born again by the Spirit of God and converted to Christ by faith is a supernatural work of God the Holy Spirit.

Next Flowers gets into some deep false teaching and I quote:

Storm’s view makes God responsible for man’s choice to humble himself and repent in faith. This is not the biblical teaching, however. Again and again scripture tells you to “humble yourself” so as to be justified and exalted (Lk. 18:10-14; 1Pt. 5:5-6; Is. 66:2; Jm. 4:10; Ps. 18:27). Not once does the Bible say that God will irresistibly humble you and cause you to willingly repent in faith. If you wait for God to irresistibly humble you then you will be too late, because that won’t be until the final judgment when he makes every knee to bow (Rm. 14:11).

This has been the one ideal that Dr. Flowers has hung his hat on and that being the wicked evil sinner who hates God and is hostile to Christ and loves sin and takes great pleasure in it (John 3:20, Rom.8:7-8) can humble himself without the power of the Holy Spirit at anytime

1 Samuel 2:7 The LORD sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts.

Deuteronomy 8:2-3 Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the wilderness these forty years, to humble and test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

Humbling oneself would be a thing pleasing to God which Flowers says the wicked sinners is able to do who hates God with a hatred of hostility.  The wicked sinner would kill God if he could instead of humbling himself.  Sinners are humbled under the mighty hand of God.  I Samuel 2:7 says God HUMBLES AND HE EXALTS.

Romans 8:7 -For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

God’s law commands repentance from everyone with exception which implies humility.  But we read in Romans 8:7 that the mind of the wicked evil sinner that is set on the flesh is hostile to God’s law, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

Romans 8:8 – Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Does Flowers not know that humility pleases God, but God’ Holy Word emphatically says that those wicked evil sinners still in the flesh cannot keep the law or do anything pleasing (that includes humility) to God. This humbling we are talking about is a spiritual humbling toward one’s salvation that would be pleasing and acceptable by God.  That evil wicked sinner is not able to do according 1 Samuel 2:7 and the other verses I have mentioned. Most of the verses Flowers mentions on humbling oneself are for Christians which they have the capacity and ability to do as they  through the process of sanctification and grace in Christ cooperate with the Holy Spirit.  This is a very Pelagian leaning by Dr, Flowers in my estimation.

Flowers continues quoting storms and His understanding of election, I now quote Flowers again:  “On a related note, this glorious act of God’s grace in electing some is unto eternal salvation and not simply to temporal service. Paul gave thanks for the Thessalonians because “God chose” them “as the firstfruits to be saved” (2 Thess. 2:13).”

Very well said by Storms in my opinion.  I want to quote the verse in mentions at the end of His comments.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 -But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

Now let’s see what problems Dr. Flowers has with what Storms has said here.

Flowers says and I quote:

Here Storms addresses the “election to service” perspective, which teaches that God has chosen certain individuals to serve a noble purpose in His redemptive plan (like His choice of the apostles or prophets). But, by this argument, Storms seems to imply that Traditionalists holding to this perspective do not also affirm God’s election of individuals to salvation. As stated above, however, Traditionalism does affirm that God has elected to save whoever humbles themselves and repents in faith.

Flowers must remember that the wicked sinner does not want to humble himself and cannot humble himself apart from the miracles work of the Holy Spirit. (John 3:20 Rom. 8:7-8——1 Samuel 2:7 The LORD sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts.

And Flowers must remember that it is God who grants repentance so that one can escape the snare and lie of the devil who hold the wicked sinner captive to do his will. (Notice in 2 Timothy 2:25 below it says PERHAPS God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, The word PERHAPS means MAYBE OR POSSIBLY SOMETHING NOT GUARANTEED. BUT LIKE HUMILITY, REPENTANCE IS GIVEN BY GOD TO THOSE WHO CHOOSES TO GIVE IT TO.

2 Timothy 2:25 -correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Then Flower mentions Faith forgetting that Faith is a gift also given by God.

2 Thessalonians 3:2 -and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith.

Romans 10:17 -So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

If faith comes to a person by hearing the word of God that would mean there was a time he did not have this supernatural gift of faith.

We also know that Hebrews 11 says “that without faith it is impossible to please God” which once again implies there are many evil wicked sinners without faith because it comes to them by hearing the word of God and enlightened within the Spirit of God. The word of God by itself is not sufficient to save,  That is why the Bible talks about the glorious ministry of the Holy Spirit and we must be born again by the Spirit of the living God.

Flowers says next and I quote:

The fact that God has ALSO chosen certain individuals, like Paul, for the noble cause of bringing His inspired message to the world, does not change this truth. In other words, Traditionalists are not arguing that God has EITHER chosen some individuals for salvation OR for service, but that he has BOTH chosen individuals for salvation AND for service. We just do not believe God makes this choice arbitrarily (and before you object to the term “arbitrary” please look it up in the dictionary and explain how the unconditional choice of God described by Calvinists does not perfectly match that definition).

I have no intention to enter into the senseless discussion of the noble cause.  Why are the Jews not preaching that noble cause today and it is primarily the Gentiles.  The basic idea and theme was that Christ was to be born through the seed of Abraham. This noble cause is a false teaching that is to be rejected as man-made theology.

I did look up the definition of “arbitrarily” and reject to Flowers forced use of it here in his accusation of the Calvinist. The definition said that arbitrarily is not based on any reason or system. How does Flowers know the mind of God that God has no reason in His election of certain individuals to salvation and passing over others.  The Scripture says “it is according to the good pleasure of God’s will.”  God’s will was involved so their was a reason, a purpose, although not known to Flowers or the Human mind but I know “God works all things according to the council of His will” and will not the judge of the earth do right.”

Then Flowers quotes Storms again and ask you to read an article for context:

Storms continues,

After the Gentiles heard the gospel preached, “as many as were appointed to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48).

I have read the context of this over and over and over.  I have read all sides and perspectives of this, and only those who do not want it to say what it plainly says are the ones who twist and turn and read into it that which is not there.  The word “disposed” just will not work which has been proven by Highly Trained Scholars.

The Traditionalist and all the non-Calvinist do their best to rid themselves of what this verse really says.  At one time a non-Calvinist said that the rendering of Revelation 13:8 of the ESV was a bit on the disingenuous side of the Calvinist, I say the same thing here, a verse that is strong and easily understood, that the Calvinist has to play scriptural gymnastics to try and get around it is being somewhat disingenuous.

Just noticed the believing comes after, “the many were appointed to eternal life”